BXProject

Post by **Vanny** » 09 Dec 2007

Ford diesels have been XUD derivatives for many years, the escort 1800 diesel is principally an XUD with a very badly screwed up head!

Then the Modeo's have had a PSA designed diesel engine for years now, then the new jags with the BIG diesel engine IS a PSA designed and made engine.

Oh and don't get me started on power of XUD's, its very simple the french and european market did not want a fast diesel (and to be honest still dont) they want economy and longevity, and that is a principle that Citroen still stick by (after all most BX diesel purchases will have been for the economy and trmendous power that was associated. It's been proven time and time again (especially in pug 306 circles) that the PSA engine will cc for cc considerably outpower the Audi/VW engine, and i say that a 30 year old design (XUD started i think in 1976) that pisses on the modern VAG design and still brings home better economy screams volumes about VAG customers! (insert racist slur here, also include blacked out windows and 22" rimz)

Nargh its been proven at le mans now that the PSA diesel engine is better than the VAG, its just a shame that there aren't really any British diesel manufacturers (for family cars!)

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 09 Dec 2007

Right, don't get me wrong here matey, I actually want to be proved wrong cos I'd love the frenchy xud to out-win the germans!! I'm playing an ignorant devils advocate if you like....so bear with me

Take a VAG 1.9 tdi and they reliably got 130hp out of it......... what...5 years ago?
PSA were getting 110 out of a 1.9....
The 2.0 VAG is up to 150 now (if not more say on the Seat Leon...170 ish..??) but on the C5 PSA have 170 but out of a 2.2....

I take your point about the french/european market wanting economy and longevity over power, which suggests that PSA could of got a whole lot more power but didn't want to.......? So what about consumption figures? VAG claims 50 - 55 but the psa figures claim less........

I think the C6 diesel unit is the same as that in the new Discoveries......i.e. a Fraud/PSA combo....but I didn't know BMW and PSA were now bed mates.......

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 09 Dec 2007

Bandit wrote:
"They want their cake and eat it"

Don`t we all

That`s true Vanny, but PSA has alway managed to sell them obsolete(2300) or earlier versions. Ford have always managed to further detune the mill with a" Ford version head to further advance performance" if you believe their technical departments bullshit.
At least they are onboard properly now the latest 14, 16,20,and 22 diesels are just as they left the HDI drawing board. The only things they have gained are a new name and some turbo and i/c changes and they didn`t get the particulate filtre/burner yet.

This is only gleaned from articles, I`ve not ad me ed undera Fraud for a while

Post by **Vanny** » 10 Dec 2007

Bx Bandit wrote:
Take a VAG 1.9 tdi and they reliably got 130hp out of it......... what...5 years ago?

you can get 130 bhp easily from a 1.9TD PSA engine, no added extras (like VAG) so just simple tweaks (up fueling, up boost) and the 1.9TD came out in 1992 (pug 405) so thats erm 15 years ago, leaving VAG 10 years to catch up! The point is, PSA engine wont match VAG as stock because they are effectively detuned to give the best economy (55mph and circa 2200 rpm is for the win, i've had a proven 71.6 mpg from a 1.9td), the sort of person who buys a VAG (sic GOLF (modern diesel ones, Mk5/Mk6 Mickey, im not having a go at the golf, just the drug dealers that drive them)) is likely to drive like a wanker and not really care about the economy they are getting and hence the desire to buy a 130bhp golf rather than say a 90bhp version!

Go and have a look at diesel VAG forums and they seem to think no one else makes diesels, hello Issuzu have THE best canal boat engine (its virtually submersible for a start) how many plant vehicles do you know of with a VAG engine, erm non cos there cummins, CAT, JCB or perkins! VAG do do good engines, infact they do very good cars and good car design (look at the new C5 and tell me it isnt a VAG design) and they have an excellent marketing team (unlike Fraud who have mediocre cars and a naff marketting team) and quite honestly 9 times out of ten i would rather have a VAG car (ie a Bentley

) than a French car, but the sort of people who buy VAGs are NOT the sorts of people i want to be associated with!

Oh, modern VAGs (perhaps excluding the R8) have NO FLAIR not something the french can be accused of (well maybe PUG

)

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 10 Dec 2007

Couldn`t agree more young fellah. If you extend your argument further the 19 TD is a copy of the 17TD, well near enough, so if you take the argument from the arrival of that mota, it`s a sight more than 15 yrs VAG are adrift. Contrary to popular belief the sausage eaters are only human and their products do break down, (with alarming regularity)

<rubs hands see`s Â£ signs> Brakes 3 out of 10, suspension 4 out of 10, body and gearchange(early) 2 out of 10. heating system 1 out of 10 I`ll stop there but it does get better
BMW and even Porsche are also not free of persistent irritating glitches and as for Audi, How come they are still selling cars that "blow" their valve stem oil seals after 15K and I don`t care which engine you pick

I hate to say it

but in my(long) experience, Mercs come out on top, not that they are perfect by any means

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 11 Dec 2007

To answer the original question.....

long before you buggers went WAAAAAYYYYYHHHHEEEEYEYYYYYYY off topic discussing German stuff

Depending on what you find when it gets stripped of course..
You should find the crank is fine, they are hardened and bullet proof.
If the crank is scored, they will ONLY take one undersize. No MORE.
But I suspect you'll find the crank will be perfect.

Mains and Big Ends, yes.
Small ends seem to last forever, but if there is any wear evident they are cheap enough.
Whilst you're in there I'd change the thrust washers aswell.

Pistons last really well, but I'd re-ring them.
Hone the bores, just a ridge scraper to remove any rodge at the top of the bore, that'll stop the top compression ring from breaing after rebuild.

As for the oil pump,your option sounds good, although I found just using the spring from a XU10 worked just fine.

What Phil said really. And as said, crank seals and them pesky hockey sticks, which a smear of sealant.
New liner seals with a smear of hylomar or the such.

Oh, and dont forget that the big end bolts are stretch bolts, so replace them too, unless you wana do the job again.

When they were built the pistons / rods / crank / flywheel were balanced as an assembly, so changing pistons and the such is best avoided unless you have the whole thing balanced after...
Wont make any difference in normal use, but if you're racing it....

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 11 Dec 2007

Wasn`t me boss,

Honest boss, I was only tellin Bandit (and Vanny) how crap they are despite the hype. I`ve worked on all of them and we compain about Citroen`s foibles. At least you can fix Cits even if it costs.

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 12 Dec 2007

Well it's easy enough to fix german stuff aint it. Just throw the car in the bin!

Hail Hitler....

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 12 Dec 2007

That`s just the point You dont have any alternative.

That`s even if you wanted to like

If you look at the scores I gave VAG, I think you would need to have masochistic tendences, or be rather

in the head, to want to bother