Go to the bottom of here: http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/fuel/test.php
I have fault code 43...anti knock control. I do have a knock sensor but a fault with that would be 44 so WTF is ANC?
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Bx Bandit
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16v Fault Code #43...WTF??
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Vanny
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anti knock is what the knock sensor provides a guage of success for. Knock sensor detects 'pinking' (predetonation) ECU puts less fuel in/fuel in at a different point. I'm making assumptions based on general theory here, you could have a luck in the Bosch bible (BOSCH Automotive bible 6th edition) and it will explain the knock system and 'anti knock'
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Hmmm, I read that as if the ECU is unable to rectify the knocking...? 
Bosch Automotive 6th ed..? Are these in the library then.....?!
Bosch Automotive 6th ed..? Are these in the library then.....?!
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Vanny
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its in my library and in the uni library.
try isolating the knock sensor (as i reckon that will likley end up being your fault) i think the only way to do it is to unbolt the knock sensor (AND PUT THE BOLT BACK IN) but you might be able to disconnect the knock from the loom, then see what it does.
dont know much about the knock tbh
try isolating the knock sensor (as i reckon that will likley end up being your fault) i think the only way to do it is to unbolt the knock sensor (AND PUT THE BOLT BACK IN) but you might be able to disconnect the knock from the loom, then see what it does.
dont know much about the knock tbh
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docchevron132
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Lucky bastard!! I cant even read mine....
Right then, it goes thus:
Most probable problem here is that the knock sensor itself is out of operating parametres.
As Vanny has said, it detects "pinking" and adjusts the fuelling / timing to suit the fuel type used and prevailing conditions at any given moment.
It is possible (but bloody unlikely) that you have a knocking big end bearing and the sensor is detecting this and trying to compensate with fuelling / timing, which of course would make no difference.
The most likely cause is the sensor itself being a bit mullered.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REMOVE THE KNOCK SENSOR AND RE-FIT THE SAME BOLT. You'll smash the bearing cap.
Does your 'K' light work, if so is it on? can you make it come on by flooring the throttle??
I can supply you with a complete 3 row ECU and loom including knock sensor should you need it, gratis of course. Naff all use to me, mine's two row, and it's bloody staying that way.
Just a further thought, you haven't recently filled the car up have you??
It's very unlikely you've got a duff source of fuel in it, the parametres in the ECU should allow you to use pretty much anything that will combust, even pool petrol, but it is a tiny possibility..
Oh, one last thing, make sure the bolt gets torques down if you remove it. It's a pretty important bolt!
Right then, it goes thus:
Most probable problem here is that the knock sensor itself is out of operating parametres.
As Vanny has said, it detects "pinking" and adjusts the fuelling / timing to suit the fuel type used and prevailing conditions at any given moment.
It is possible (but bloody unlikely) that you have a knocking big end bearing and the sensor is detecting this and trying to compensate with fuelling / timing, which of course would make no difference.
The most likely cause is the sensor itself being a bit mullered.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REMOVE THE KNOCK SENSOR AND RE-FIT THE SAME BOLT. You'll smash the bearing cap.
Does your 'K' light work, if so is it on? can you make it come on by flooring the throttle??
I can supply you with a complete 3 row ECU and loom including knock sensor should you need it, gratis of course. Naff all use to me, mine's two row, and it's bloody staying that way.
Just a further thought, you haven't recently filled the car up have you??
It's very unlikely you've got a duff source of fuel in it, the parametres in the ECU should allow you to use pretty much anything that will combust, even pool petrol, but it is a tiny possibility..
Oh, one last thing, make sure the bolt gets torques down if you remove it. It's a pretty important bolt!
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1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
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Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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The K light does work and tends to come on at low or even idles speeds..I have never noticed it when flooring the bugger, although I'll take a peek next time I do.
The K light has been on and off since I had the car. Martin used to put 95 Octane but I use 97 or V-max when I'm feeling extravagant (only once since I've had it). On that basis, I doubt it's dodgy fuel but I understand where you're coming from.
The code for knock sensor itself is 44, but diags has given me 43 - Anti knock control. So do you rekon it could be a 'dying' knock sensor i.e.out of params and the ecu is pointlessly (and supposedly) trying to compensate rather than a dead KS which would flag a FC 44? What are the test params for the KS?
There are other problems with starting/idling/hunting now it's colder but nothing else is flagged on the ecu.
My multimeter fucked up (tis me Grandads so I think it's fubar) so I'm waiting for one off fleabay and I'll get down to a systematic testing of each sensor/switch etc to see whats what.
Anyone know what happens if you leave the KS disconnected?
If all else fails Doc it may be worth tyring your ecu to see if it makes any difference.
Why can't you read your FCs mate?
The K light has been on and off since I had the car. Martin used to put 95 Octane but I use 97 or V-max when I'm feeling extravagant (only once since I've had it). On that basis, I doubt it's dodgy fuel but I understand where you're coming from.
The code for knock sensor itself is 44, but diags has given me 43 - Anti knock control. So do you rekon it could be a 'dying' knock sensor i.e.out of params and the ecu is pointlessly (and supposedly) trying to compensate rather than a dead KS which would flag a FC 44? What are the test params for the KS?
There are other problems with starting/idling/hunting now it's colder but nothing else is flagged on the ecu.
My multimeter fucked up (tis me Grandads so I think it's fubar) so I'm waiting for one off fleabay and I'll get down to a systematic testing of each sensor/switch etc to see whats what.
Anyone know what happens if you leave the KS disconnected?
If all else fails Doc it may be worth tyring your ecu to see if it makes any difference.
Why can't you read your FCs mate?
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Vanny
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i cant read my fault codes either, fuckign frnech electrics, i even have the snap on tool for doing it (how posh am i!)
Idle control valve will be the cause of your idling issues, if they are indeed issues. I've only driven regulalry the valver in my car and a racer and neither where very good at idling (especially in comparison to a 30 year old landrover 2+2/4 litre petrol engine with its timing out which still runs sweet as a nut!) i think its a motronic thing as they are very limited on what they can do to actually smooth out the idle!
While trying an ECU is always a good way to issolate the complex cricuitry they very rarely fail, german build quality remember! THe french wiring however is much more likely to be causing a problem, try checking the wiring connectors all the way round the ECU wiring loom is the obvious first check (wd40 for the win here, and possibly some wire wool on the metal bits).
Does sound like the knock sensor is giving up or need feeding the right signals, i do have instructions on how to finely check the ECU external components, but it is at the farm not the house so will go get it at the weekend, can't scan anything though as i dont have a scanner
Multimeter, is it analogue, cos unless you've smashed it, likely hood is that it will go again
digital is easier though, just doesnt show you some subtle variations
Idle control valve will be the cause of your idling issues, if they are indeed issues. I've only driven regulalry the valver in my car and a racer and neither where very good at idling (especially in comparison to a 30 year old landrover 2+2/4 litre petrol engine with its timing out which still runs sweet as a nut!) i think its a motronic thing as they are very limited on what they can do to actually smooth out the idle!
While trying an ECU is always a good way to issolate the complex cricuitry they very rarely fail, german build quality remember! THe french wiring however is much more likely to be causing a problem, try checking the wiring connectors all the way round the ECU wiring loom is the obvious first check (wd40 for the win here, and possibly some wire wool on the metal bits).
Does sound like the knock sensor is giving up or need feeding the right signals, i do have instructions on how to finely check the ECU external components, but it is at the farm not the house so will go get it at the weekend, can't scan anything though as i dont have a scanner
Multimeter, is it analogue, cos unless you've smashed it, likely hood is that it will go again
digital is easier though, just doesnt show you some subtle variations-
Vanny
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The old one is Analogue, I've repaired it about 4 times, the needle won't zero (so I took it apart and the only way to zero it was to bend the needle...) But a new battery in it, but impedance tests don't want to work..have checked a few joints but it's not pleased at all. Now the Volt meter readings don't want to play and I've kinda got fed up and looked on the flea for a digi one that will go Bzzzzzz for continuity. Plus, I've got lazy and want an easy readout instead of making sure I'm on the correct scale and then xing by 10K and all that bolx. TBH, even if I did fix it, I wouldn't trust the readings anymore, Ive cleaned contacts so often that there's no copper left....
The idle problem has been high revs, normally 1100 - 1200 when cold (which seems about right) but anywhere between 1200 and 1500 when hot, but steady revs at least. Give it a blip and the revs will fall for a while but they always come back up to 1200 ish. Also it's a bitch to start when hot - takes a good bit of turning over and normally helped by a bit of throttle. I did wonder if that latter may be leaky injector and the extra airflow due to depressed throttle helps evaporate a bit off.
I know the ICV is operating - I got a 2nd hand one for a Saab of the flea. It's made a small difference but not much. I suspect there may be a few culminating probs that need to be ironed out. I've cleaned up and greased most but not all contacts in the engine bay. Not checked dizzy cap or rotor arm yet (i assume the coil is ok). The plugs are single electrode things but good condition...do the NKG triple electrodes make much difference?
I'll check the knock sensor when I get the new meter.....
I will tame my 16v Beeyatch...I will I will I will
Why can't you read the codes the Vanny? Does the memory fuck up or summut?
The idle problem has been high revs, normally 1100 - 1200 when cold (which seems about right) but anywhere between 1200 and 1500 when hot, but steady revs at least. Give it a blip and the revs will fall for a while but they always come back up to 1200 ish. Also it's a bitch to start when hot - takes a good bit of turning over and normally helped by a bit of throttle. I did wonder if that latter may be leaky injector and the extra airflow due to depressed throttle helps evaporate a bit off.
I know the ICV is operating - I got a 2nd hand one for a Saab of the flea. It's made a small difference but not much. I suspect there may be a few culminating probs that need to be ironed out. I've cleaned up and greased most but not all contacts in the engine bay. Not checked dizzy cap or rotor arm yet (i assume the coil is ok). The plugs are single electrode things but good condition...do the NKG triple electrodes make much difference?
I'll check the knock sensor when I get the new meter.....
I will tame my 16v Beeyatch...I will I will I will
Why can't you read the codes the Vanny? Does the memory fuck up or summut?
....There he goes, one of God's own prototypes, a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production......too weird too live.....and too rare to die
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docchevron132
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BLLLLLLLOOOOOODDDDDDDYYYYYYY HELL!
Right, trust me mate, the idling issue will be the ICV. The coolant temp sensor for the ECU may not be helping though.. If it's out of spec then that will effect idling.
My ECU just wont read. Even if I take data direct from the ECU, it just doesn't... really cant be arsed to work out why.. The car goes, so I'm not fussed right now..
Hot starts can be an issue with valvers, but it's recomended to give it a boot full of throttle when hot starting anyway.
Er, yes, single electrode plugs wont help at all. There's a very good reason why they used triples..
It makes a fucking huge difference.
Bandit, whats your oil pressure like at idle??
Does the K light come on from start up when cold at idle, or is it more prominent with a hot engine?
Right, trust me mate, the idling issue will be the ICV. The coolant temp sensor for the ECU may not be helping though.. If it's out of spec then that will effect idling.
My ECU just wont read. Even if I take data direct from the ECU, it just doesn't... really cant be arsed to work out why.. The car goes, so I'm not fussed right now..
Hot starts can be an issue with valvers, but it's recomended to give it a boot full of throttle when hot starting anyway.
Er, yes, single electrode plugs wont help at all. There's a very good reason why they used triples..
It makes a fucking huge difference.
Well yeah, If the sensor or loom to it fails, then you'd get 44, but if the ECU cant compensate suffiecently then 44 will flag. The reason for it not compensating is nearly always the sensor itself though.The dude wrote:The code for knock sensor itself is 44, but diags has given me 43 - Anti knock control. So do you rekon it could be a 'dying' knock sensor i.e.out of params and the ecu is pointlessly (and supposedly) trying to compensate rather than a dead KS which would flag a FC 44?
Valvers always idle on the lumpy side, it's less to do with the Motronic, and much more to do with the hugely aggresive cams they've got. Due to not having VVT and all that shit, the cams are designed to give the grubt WAY higher up the rev range, when the engine comes up on the cams it's a fucking sweet engine, but off the cams it's lumpy, it's just how they are..Vanny wrote:Idle control valve will be the cause of your idling issues, if they are indeed issues. I've only driven regulalry the valver in my car and a racer and neither where very good at idling (especially in comparison to a 30 year old landrover 2+2/4 litre petrol engine with its timing out which still runs sweet as a nut!) i think its a motronic thing as they are very limited on what they can do to actually smooth out the idle!
Bandit, whats your oil pressure like at idle??
Does the K light come on from start up when cold at idle, or is it more prominent with a hot engine?
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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Hard to say about oil pressure cos the guage spends most of it's time on acid 
I'll have to have a check mate, I know it's around the 6 mark as I punt it, normally about 4 ish (I think) doing a 40mph cruise..
I 'think' the K light only comes on when it's hot, but maybe that's just because it doesn't come on that often and when it does the chances are the car isn't cold. She's spent all week doing the school run (ouch..) so I'll give her a bit of a blast today and get her hot'n'wet...
On the ICV front, if I squeeze the tubing from it, it makes very little difference. Ive lubed it up and it's def clicking/not sticking. Possibly BV spindle worn or BV badly adjusted. I've not had the feeler guages in there to check yet TPS is ok and the T/cable is not affecting anything - I take it off when I'm fidling just to rule it out.
It's a good oportunity for me to be systematic and check everything and get to know how it all works - just need this m/meter to end at auction.
I do have this 'spare' connector block tho'..It's the same type that fits into the bottom of the header tank, 3 female spade type connectors in a brown connector block...don't think its ecu related cos they have the clippy clippy type connectors dont they?
I'll have to have a check mate, I know it's around the 6 mark as I punt it, normally about 4 ish (I think) doing a 40mph cruise..I 'think' the K light only comes on when it's hot, but maybe that's just because it doesn't come on that often and when it does the chances are the car isn't cold. She's spent all week doing the school run (ouch..) so I'll give her a bit of a blast today and get her hot'n'wet...
On the ICV front, if I squeeze the tubing from it, it makes very little difference. Ive lubed it up and it's def clicking/not sticking. Possibly BV spindle worn or BV badly adjusted. I've not had the feeler guages in there to check yet TPS is ok and the T/cable is not affecting anything - I take it off when I'm fidling just to rule it out.
It's a good oportunity for me to be systematic and check everything and get to know how it all works - just need this m/meter to end at auction.
I do have this 'spare' connector block tho'..It's the same type that fits into the bottom of the header tank, 3 female spade type connectors in a brown connector block...don't think its ecu related cos they have the clippy clippy type connectors dont they?
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docchevron132
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Clippy clippy it is mate.
Where is this plug found loitering??
Trust me dude, just cos the ICV seems to be working, doesn't mean it's any good, I got a brand new one just last week, and the fekking car wouldn't idle below 2K rpm.
Sounds like maybe it could do with a new temp sensor for the ecu.
I still put money on the knock sensor itself being mullered.
It's not common for the ECU to fail. Not like that anyhow..
Where is this plug found loitering??
Trust me dude, just cos the ICV seems to be working, doesn't mean it's any good, I got a brand new one just last week, and the fekking car wouldn't idle below 2K rpm.
Sounds like maybe it could do with a new temp sensor for the ecu.
I still put money on the knock sensor itself being mullered.
It's not common for the ECU to fail. Not like that anyhow..
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
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Non clippy clippy is hovering in the vicinity of header tank...naughty thing!
Took it for a spin yesterday...managed to piss off a few people who seemed a bit peeved at having been thrashed by a 17 yr old car...actually, one was a GM Vauxhall driver...but clearly he had egg on his face!! 
The other was a Merc E driving like a cunt...so I out-cunted him 
Had a peek at the sparkeys too when I got back...
I got some unipart shit in ma dumb ass...will be buying NGK triple 'trodes asap!!!! Good colour on 'em tho'...almost a bit lean possibly but I expected blacked* out fuckers...
Had a check on the oil pressure....idle is just over 2...going up to a wee bit under 6 for punting...all dependant on wether the headlights are on and if the oil guage is in party mood or not
Took it for a spin yesterday...managed to piss off a few people who seemed a bit peeved at having been thrashed by a 17 yr old car...actually, one was a GM Vauxhall driver...but clearly he had egg on his face!!
The other was a Merc E driving like a cunt...so I out-cunted him Had a peek at the sparkeys too when I got back...
I got some unipart shit in ma dumb ass...will be buying NGK triple 'trodes asap!!!! Good colour on 'em tho'...almost a bit lean possibly but I expected blacked* out fuckers...Had a check on the oil pressure....idle is just over 2...going up to a wee bit under 6 for punting...all dependant on wether the headlights are on and if the oil guage is in party mood or not
....There he goes, one of God's own prototypes, a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production......too weird too live.....and too rare to die
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