BXProject

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 18 Sep 2008

Yeah it is double skinned along there it doesn`t look too bad

A good way to check is to build it up with weld (wire brush first)

If it builds up ok it`s fine. If it fizzes away, keep going until it sticks.....
....That`s the extent of yer rust

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 21 Sep 2008

I had a really good dig at the rust and cold the cold chisel on it....it's gone through where all the shit collects between the sill and that support plate for the rear subframe mounts. The only way to deal with it properly is to remove that support plate and cut out all the rust from the subframe side of the sill..............can't be arsed tho'! So, I had a good clean up and just I was about to apply me Granville rust treatment, my neighbour offered me some POR-15 - a supposed 'paint on top of rust and seal the bastard to prevent more rust' type thing. Tis fooking expensive by all accounts but it sets like a plastic and is very tough and flexible! We shall see what happens. Now at last I can weld the patch in and flood the bastard with waxoyl!!!!! BTW, was thinking of trying a weld-thru primer for this bit.........are they any good? Recommendations?

Oh BTW, if you ever use some POR-15 stuff........wear gloves!!! Cos my fingers are black and once it's set it don't come off...have tried white spirit (but not compatible) cellulose thinners.......swarfega......will try petrol next but I don't hold much hope.................

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 21 Sep 2008

I always use STAR WELD weld through primer, it's fucking brilliant stuff.

Indeed, getting that shit off your skin as a right bastard, although you dont really want to be getting it on your skin in the forst place, it's full of very nasty shit.

I've found in the past tyhe only way to shift it is a scouring pad and swarfega, lots of it.

As long as the subframe mounting itself is ok then I should worry too much about the sill TBH, it doesn't take much load there anyway, as long as everything above it and across the floor is good.

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 21 Sep 2008

Yeah, as Doc says it should be ok if it does`nt run into the floor

Kurust does the same thing to your digits...black as fuck

It comes off dead easy using one of those foot scrubbers...you know
those charcoaly things with a bit of ordinary soap...it helps if you have
real thick skin

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 21 Sep 2008

Ooh, never thought of using one of them!

Or, last resort, stick thine hands in a fucking shot blaster!
That'll do it!

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 22 Sep 2008

STAR WELD eh??? Right, I shall see what I can get..............unfortunately, for the sake of convenience I shall have to give some of my 'Mrs Bandit hard earned cash' to Halfrauds

so it depends on what they stock...

As is always the case with these things, once you start poking around there are two additional factors like 'Oh fook....more rust' and the old classic 'whilst I'm here, I may as well do that..this and the other', so I'm gonna leave the subframe and the bit of welding beneath the seats for another time. Now I've got the basics of MIG.........my life would be bare without a set! So, I shall be saving my pennies (or blowing my fist pay packet) on a set......you see Phil, you got me hooked!!!!!!!! All of this BX work is good practice for my Grandads Triumph 2000........

With that said, then the welding is done (or will be by the end of today)!! Hurrah

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 22 Sep 2008

Bx Bandit wrote: As is always the case with these things, once you start poking around there are two additional factors like 'Oh fook....more rust' and the old classic 'whilst I'm here, I may as well do that..this and the other'

yes, I'm slightly kinda familiar with that right now:

That was a chassis once!
Wana swop??!

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 22 Sep 2008

Sawp? No ta! Christ, for someone who doesn't like welding, you haven't half given yourself alot of it to do!!!!!!!

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 22 Sep 2008

Not too bad then!!!! You lie, you told me it was rotten

It`s only a bit .......err.....RUSTY

How you plannin on proceeding maestro?
I did an ancient flatbed chassis about 5 years ago..... none of it was redeemable. I strepped the miggle bit each side with plate welded on temporary. Then cut out sections, fabricating copies then welding into place, working from the front offside then doing the rear nearside, bit by bit, to prevent warping. finally removing the stiffened middles and replacing those. Once the main sides were good I made new crossmembers for the middle and rear fortunately the front one was more or less intact due to copious amounts of oil

Bandit, there are plenty of good sets on the second hand market mate, you`ll get a good qual bigger set better than mine, for a lot less than an inferior new one.

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 23 Sep 2008

I'm not totally decided yet!
There's two plans formulating mate.
One is to strip the body off from the step back, stick the front and back ends on stands and support the whole fornt end, cut both sections out (they're about 12 foot long each) and have new rails made, weld them in and hope it all works!
Due to everything being seem welded it will take forever to seperate and rather involved.
Although it's tempting.

The other option is grind back the existing rails untill something resembling shinyness is found, then kinda make new sections out of 1/4" plate over the top of the original.
The Chassis risers are ok (ish) so I'm tempted to go for the latter option..

I duno, I'll see wats left after a good grind!

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 24 Sep 2008

Hmm I like your second solution better. If you remove both sections that big you risk the body warping and it can be a struggle to pull it back in line.
It`s a mixture of all the strains that have affected the body during it`s life.
I`ve seen them jump 8" when released, even more if it`s had a bump at any time.

If you choose to "plate" it up, If the top surface of the original fits against the body your stiffening will have to go inside.

I know little about buzzes mate, but 6mm seems a little heavy. I would have thought 4mm would be plenty strong enuff

I had a burning torch which I found invaluable

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 25 Sep 2008

The body would have to come off to replace the rails, so it would then become a total start again job, which I'm keen to avoid!
The lowered gang way floor sits on the cross member by the chassis risers,but other than that the floor is nowhere near the chassis at the back end so there's plenty of scope for adding a HUGE amount of extra steel around the orignal rails.

6mm is about right I reckon, the stresses that run through that part of the chassis is immense.
There's two tonnes of engine and box hanging off the back of it, plus the weight of thebodywork aft of the wheelarch, and forward of the rails there's the two chassis risers that srop down to the flat ladder section that is the rest of the bus.
The rear axle spring anchors attach to a cross member under the front end of the chassis risers and the other end of the taperlight springs terminate ina fucking great plate that the air springs sit on, they act against the pedestals on the cross member that runs through the two rails, so not only do those two rails take a huge amount of weight, they also have to deal with twist, torque, shock and the usual flexiness you get over a structure that long! They have a rather hard life so If suitable huge bits of 1/4" are seam and plug welded over the top for the length of the rails it'll spread the weight and shock over a wider area and hopefully stop any potential for cracking.
It may be slight over kill, but I'm not keen to do it again any time soon!

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 25 Sep 2008

IIRC the dust cart chassis had C section rails of 8mm. Most of the stuff we put on as just to keep the refuse collection body on the chassis. Normally 10mm plate was used as it was mostly in tension and transmitting the load in the body to the chassis.

It became evident on one particular customer that the chaps fucking ragged the shit out of these trucks. They kept complaining of cracked welds on the tie down plates - not that common but it does happen to the odd truck. However, they had several trucks with the same problem and the same trucks had been re-welded a number of times. When it was my turn to visit and inspect the vehicle, I noticed some extensive damage to part of the suspension unit - the only cause of which MUST of been vehicle abuse!!!! I had to get a merc engineer down in the end to examine the truck and he'd never seen that amount of damage (except in accident cases) So I politely told the customer to treat the trucks nicely and pay for the welding repairs himself!

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 25 Sep 2008

I hear a great deal of expertise there herr maestro, suffice to add that mild steel withstands 33 tonnes per 25.4mm squared.

When I come down I`ll bring Derek with me. He used to build the bleeding things anyway, at Counties/Transbus.

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 26 Sep 2008

Ahhh, so in short it's Derek's fault my bus is more rotten than Titanic!:lol:

Actually, if Derek worked for Dennis in 1993 then it's entirely plausable that he did have a hand in the build of this thing, small world aint it!

To be fair, the bus HAS survived it's design life, so it's done what it was supposed to do, albeit it's now beyond screwed, but it was built to a price, and it shows.
The steel quality is bloody attrocious, but you cant fault the seem welding on it, all the genuine DENNIS administered weld is very good, all the bus company weld is shite!

They were designed as a lightweight chassis which didn't help for longevity, and the paint on the chassis is utter wank.
It's about 4 microns thick (where there's any left) grey plasticote type shite.

Infact, I dont suppose Derek knows what the fuck they actually used?

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 26 Sep 2008

It was about 96/7 when Dek started there, (in the paint shop)

Plasticote was developed to be used in conjunction with an ash blasted prep, followed by an electrophoretic dip, within 6 hrs of the ashblast.
Followed by wax protection this promised to give 15 years without any significant change

Unfortunately production standards were less than adquate and I hnow of one waggon manufacturer that sprayed plasticote straight on ...no prep. not even degreased or primered

One chasis I looked at even had welding slag still attached, at one point. I chipped it off, leaving bare metal, after only 2 years.
So, it`s luck of the draw some are good some are crap, it was a case of cutting processes out to keep up with unrealistic production targets.
No matter what your upinion of unions is. Targets, in my era, were negotiated and quality in the 50`s, 60`s, early 70`s, was much better because of it.
At the unions demise, get it out at anyprice, was the order of the day, the results of which we can now see.

OK I`ll get off me box now

docchevron132 · Post by **docchevron132** » 27 Sep 2008

132 does indeed look as if one coat of plasticote has been slapped straight on bare steel.
Infact all the Lances I've looked at seem to be exactley the same!

Like I said above, they were built to a price, and back in the early ninties NO-ONE was buying full size singles, it was either double decks or midi buses, so sales rates for Lances was low, Dennis have never been that good at actually making stuff (to be perfectley honest and the "parts bin" approach to the chassis is evident by it's amatuerish build.

Not that I'm complaining, like I said, it did it's 15 years, and to be fair to the bus, in the 15 years it did with the company it (and all the others) have been neglected to fuck.
Engineering philosophy is to do the absolute bare minimum required to keep the thing on the road and making money. So given it's shite anti-corrosion properties from new, coupled with the dismal build quality added to the neglect it suffered during it's life with First, it actually hasn't done all that badly!

It'll be fine when it's finished, a little mobile piece of history, for it will be the only one left soon.

Anyway, I've nicked enough of Bandits thread talking fucking buses, so I'll shut the fuck up now!

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 27 Sep 2008

Dim problem to me bud

Bx Bandit · Post by **Bx Bandit** » 29 Oct 2008

Bugger! Darn heater matrix gone

I hate doing the damn things. It's the trick that every BX I own plays on me...

On the plus side, I got up to 107mph (well.....apparently

) and the thing still had more to go!! I never got more than 100 out the TGD - but I'm wondering if they were set differently as they left the factory..

On the TGD the boost kicked in quite low at 2000 and things fizzled out after 3000... The TZD comes in at 3000 which serves motorway driving better. think I prefer the TZD setup but why would they be different?

Now got 430 miles from the tank and the needle is on half!!! Suck on that Brown!!!!

Philhod · Post by **Philhod** » 29 Oct 2008

What you doin to all the heaters Bandit? Do you never use a system flush? I just did my sorry Liams TXD and filled with new antifreeze.
Also get around 580 to 600 mpt

Got 650 at best while on holiday in Deutschland