BXProject

[stu]

Something I've been thinking about lately.

As Citroen fans, we must admit that our favourite manufacturer specialises in style and suspension - not engines.

GS flat-four and Mi16 apart, the engine has generally been the one thing that lets our cars down. I'm thinking, for example, of contemporary DS reviews which expressed disappointment at finding clunky old Traction Avant engines in this spangly new car. And guess what the weak point of its successor the CX was?

Since those days of awfulness they've just been average. G's apart, the engines in my Citroens have merely dragged them from place to place; they haven't inspired.

My favourite from my stable of old cars was the Passat GL5, which had the same 5-cylinder 2-litre as the rally-winning Audi coupes of the era. It was fast, responsive, incredibly torquey and - very important this - it made a lovely noise.

The XM is faster than a carb'd 2-litre automatic has any right to be in such a heavy shell (I'm directly comparing to my Rover 2000SC Auto from 20 years before here) but it just doesn't have enough drama. It doesn't make a nice noise. It just sounds like a big vacuum cleaner that runs on petrol.

I need more cylinders under there. Or something.

[David]

^^ Isn't that the truth.

The only engine I like a lot in Citroens is the XUD, but then you can get that in all manner of different PSA cars, and a number of non-PSA ones too. Most Citroens seem to have fairly boring engines.

Given that you're talking about petrol engines, the best one I've driven was the Vauxhaul 8v of the 80's. Not massively powerful, but the torque was huge. Very driveable, and surprisingly economic.

In contrast, the XU in the Digit is flat at low revs, needs revving to get any form of go out of it, and sounds like a bag of nails. The same can be said of almost all XU engines. The TU is just as bad, and don't even start on the XY suitcase ones!

... and don't think that 2 more cylinders will make much difference. Having driven both the PRV V6 in various cars, and the later ES9(?) engine in a 406, they are dull dull dull engines. The ES9 may be smooth, but both engines are about as interesting as Swindon on an overcast Wednesday afternoon.

The only exception I think is the GS/GSA aircooled flat. I'm not a fan of aircooled engines at all, but that one is the only one I've enjoyed driving. The beetle and camper series of engines were just plain rubbish and even the early porkie-porsche flat 6 engines were a bit crap. The G engine however seemed to not only have some reasonable torque, but also seemed to be happy at revs (something the beetle flat was never happy with)

French Petrol engines. Rather "Meh."

If you want a V6 that actually sounds good and goes well... Alfa Romeo GTV.

[Way2go]

I think that you are being a little hard on the cars in general - after all you could put that RR Merlin engine in if you extended the chassis like that guy who built his own Rolls-Royce.

I've actually been quite pleased with the 8v GTi BX engines especially with the motronic injection and it gives a smooth ride with sufficient everyday torque and quick overtaking acceleration when needed. Didn't though like the Peugeot 405SRi in the same way as it didn't have the same speed and handling as the BX (and the short seats were shit! ).

[docchevron132]

Nah, I think you're on the money.
The D6C is a superb engine (when it's good, but I've driven some total wank ones that sound ghey)

the 8V needs a lot of work on the top end and a straight through exhaust for that "fruity" noise..

Kate's 1360TU sounds quite nice, but theres only one silencer (a small one!) and it's had a re-worked head..

I love the burble of a good V8, my fave being the 455 Wildcat with the holly carbs, global warming in one small compact unit!

A good dtraight 6 can sound lovely too, my ambulance burbles just like a V8 at low revs, and it's got BAGS of torque.

I've always loved the sound of big commercial straight 6 diesels and bigger stuff like Paxman Valenta's..

but yeah, on the whole, Cit engines are made to perform a function, rather than to have finesse or flair.

Oh, for my sins I like the noise the flat 4 Scooby makes too.

[smiffy]

Have you heard what a nice noise a CX turbo makes at full chat? MMMmmmmmm!!

[Stinkwheel(Matt)]

The only exception I think is the GS/GSA aircooled flat. I'm not a fan of aircooled engines at all, but that one is the only one I've enjoyed driving

Got to agree with this one, i've owned 4 GS/A in the past and to be honest they were all somewhat dog eared, i bought a 1984 Silver GSA special estate yesterday. Its done 65k and the engine on it is magic, i mean totally smooth, quiet and surprisingly powerful. 2 up, loaded with parts in the back (and that includes another engine) it was pulling like a train and sounding great.

Have you heard what a nice noise a CX turbo makes at full chat? MMMmmmmmm!!

Yes i have and its also a damn good engine, we all know about the fast ones out there and if this basic pushrod lump can take nearly 400 bhp on its standard castings then its one damn good strong engine and they drive so well, lazy if you want say in third just using a bit of boost to punt you around or really flying on an open stretch.

Lets also talk 2CV. I mean a 602cc hemi head flat twin that makes 35 bhp and goes faster than a 1300cc 4cyl beeetle.

Lets face it, citroen knows (knew?) how to make engines its juts as has been said, most of them were just to do a job and lug around some fairly mundane cars so the engines needed to be normal and relaible, not exciting and clever, they arent italian after all

[mnde]

Got to agree with this one, i've owned 4 GS/A in the past and to be honest they were all somewhat dog eared, i bought a 1984 Silver GSA special estate yesterday. Its done 65k and the engine on it is magic, i mean totally smooth, quiet and surprisingly powerful. 2 up, loaded with parts in the back (and that includes another engine) it was pulling like a train and sounding great.

I totally agree- I love the G engine. When the carby is playing ball, it's a special machine to drive. And back in July when moving house, my GSA Estate was still surprisingly nifty when full of all my stuff. And, god, you can pack so much stuff in there!! I had to take it careful on bends though Well done on the purchase - you've joined a rather exclusive club and I can't wait to see the car!

I have to disagree with David about the BX14 TU engine though. I was *really* surprised by the rorty sounds coming from the St Tropez when pushed, and it felt somewhat more powerful than the figures suggest. Really revvy and I was continuously blipping the throttle at lights Yeah, it made my 16 XU sound pretty naff by comparison. Like an Escort.

Cheers,

Mark

[Madcav]

Well, for all round useability, power, sound, economy and the fun factor to drive I won't disappoint you with my answer. The two litre eight valve Vauxhall engine (especially the 130bhp version) is the best, really it is. They sound magic when being welted (especially with a full system), they're as good as bullet proof, piss easy to work on and have a decent turn of speed and enough torque to keep you happy. I can honestly say hand-on-heart I've never owned or driven a better eight valve engine, ever.

[Vanny]

erm, the only reason Citroen sold more than 10 BX's is for one reason and one reason only, XUD! Now thats a killer engine, and so good every car manufacturer has cloned or copied one of the XUD derivatives.

[David]

Interesting. I've only driven TU engines in Pug 306, where they are fairly dull. I've yet to drive a BX14, so may well be pleasantly surprised. I often find it amazing how the same basic engine can sound/feel/drive very differently depending on what car it's in.

The rover V8 for instance. Same basic engine but try one in a Stage one V8 land rover, an SD1 and then a TVR. Radically different, despite being essentially the same.

[Stinkwheel(Matt)]

If you wanna good TU try one in an AX GT with its twin choke weber.

In my opinion an engine that suits the car its in perfectly, great fun.

[docchevron132]

the BX14TU is actually quite a fun car to drive, as long as the engines good.
It works well in the 205, and as Matt said the AX GT. But in the 306 and the such, it was utter rubbish...

[smiffy]

Yes indeed David, you MUST try out an AXGT, it really is the most fun you can have, and still keep your clothes on!

john s

[docchevron132]

Not sure I'd go that far...
They're ok..
I've had more fun wearing clothes.
BX 16 Soupapes for example..

[smiffy]

Not sure I'd go that far...
I've had more fun wearing clothes.
..

then you weren't trying hard enough!

john s

[stu]

I'll vouch for the chassis - 106s and Saxos are hilarious fun to wang around the bends. I've never driven one with anything more special than a PSA 1.4i petrol engine though.

Embarrassingly, my speed record over my favourite test route is held - joint first - by a knackered Citroen GSA (which Stinkwheel may recognise) and my mum's Pug 106 1.4i

[mnde]

Agreed, I had a Saxo as a courtesy car while the Citroen garage repaired my GSA... that one of their staff had run into the back of... The best bit of luck I've had in ages: that tailgate was rotten

Saxo was bloody good fun round corners. It was red, but covered with black spots of tar. So I did them a favour, I washed and polished it!

Mark.

[stu]

Yeah, the courtesy Astra I had after the crash went back cleaner than when I got it too. There was a clause about a valeting fee that I really didn't want to pay.

I hated that car.

[Vanny]

i properly cleaned that fucking fiat before i took it back, but for a damn good reason, the 4 weeks of abuse i gave it also included towing a stricken vehicle, treating like absolute shite (because it was) and some off roading! And during the off roading i hit a bit of caravan leaving a lovely score over the fiat badge, the bumper and grill, with it cleaned they didnt even notice (and it was rather deep accross the badge!)


On topic

[docchevron132]

You also tried to drown it leaving some hall or other!
It was still pissing water out of the undertrays some miles later!