BXProject

[mat_the_cat]

...but I've got a strange hankering for a Proton Wira. Help!

Let me give the full story - a mate of mine has a new job where they have a fleet of Protons, all LPG converted. Now, for a while I've thought it would be a good idea if I had a car that I just didn't give a shit about that I could just run into the ground (obvioulsy giving it the mechanical maintanance), just not caring about the inevitable deteriotation that comes with aging.
So along comes Rick in his 1.5 litre Wira, with a proper factory fit LPG conversion, equivalent of 70-80 mpg, in a car thta I could not possibly care one jot about. I'ts my beief that a lot of problems with LPG conversions are wit the actual conversion process itself, but this is really neat - factory ECU (presumably dual map for both fuels, LPG filler under petrol cap, fuel gause reads the LPG tank as well depending on what fuel you're running on. ANd I get the strange thought that this would be an ideal shitter for me to run about in.

Do I need help? Is this an awful idea?

[jayw]

No, not at all. Actually, if it's got the factory bodykit it's also not too displeasing to the eye!

Go for it.

[mat_the_cat]

Well, it's not actually for sale, just that when they do I may give it some thought. A '52 plate, would be by far the newest vehicle I've ever owned!

[docchevron132]

erm..... I..... but...... just....... yeah.

[catsinthewelder]

How are you fixed for a local LPG filling station? I've got a factory duel fuel Daihatsu HiJet pickup at work and the fuel consumption is fucking awful when its on petrol. It uses at least twice as much as the old petrol one.

Still good fun though

[mat_the_cat]

Bizarrely (for rural Wales) i have one a few miles away, one near work, my wife's work has a tank and there is another about 30 miles away.
Plus the great Harry Tuffins for whenever we venture across the border (I'm sure you'll know what I mean...)

[Bx Bandit]

Interesting concept Matt. I've often wondered what modern piece of shit I'd own if I had to. I'd love to have a rather dull Honda for about 500 sheets max and run the bitch to death. It's bound to last 2 years at 5K p.a. and so will be bomb proof cheap motoring

[Scarecrow]

Ha that was my original reasoning for buying a bx! Look where that got me - addicted to a car with an ever decreasing availability of spares and me with little inclination to do the fixing parts (they still get done, but cost me money and I don't get to supervise the mechanic (they don't like you hovering around over their shoulders, generally)) I always have liked cheap old classics and I don't s'pose I'll change.

[stu]

Well... the BX fills all those boxes for me, it fulfils all my needs as a car and it costs buttons to run. If I was offered something even cheaper I'd think damn hard about it.

If Proton Fuel is cheap where you are, go for it.

[Stinkwheel(Matt)]

Actually, to play devils advocate. Why not get a petrol BX that you like and get it (or do it yourself and have it inspected after) LPG'd up.

[mickey taker]

most lpg converted cars I have looked at have had issues from manifold problems , head gasket issues to just not running right ,

A factory conversion should be a better option .

I'm finally giving in and selling both my cars to go diesel,( something I thought I would never do )

probably a kia sedona 2.9 ( 40mpg ) to replace the hyanddry (25 at best ) and a peugeot 205 diesel to replace the camry .

[mickey taker]

mind you , what mpg would I expect to see on a bx1.9 tzi auto

[Stinkwheel(Matt)]

My newly aquired CX Gti Turbo 2 does approx 25mpg on petrol if not booting it everywhere and seems to do about 21mpg ish average on LPG (now the pipework fits properly and isnt leaking)

Its not an ideal set-up for a turbo injected car as its a mixer type system but its now got a BLOS carb in the set-up and thats making it run much more like it should on lpg. Less mpg on lpg is expected and normal apprantly but its half the price so quid pro quo.

SO say a petrol BX does 28mpg ish on petrol call it 22 on lpg but as said your paying 70 pence ish a litre for the gas.

[mat_the_cat]

Actually, to play devils advocate. Why not get a petrol BX that you like and get it (or do it yourself and have it inspected after) LPG'd up.

I see what you mean, but part of me wants a car I won't get attached to...

As for the LPG conversion - don't get me started on the only installer round here. I fitted a kit to the last Disco and got them to give it a safety check. His attitude was awful, really slated me for not getting the installation done by themselves. I tried to point out that self install was the only financially viable option.
They then claimed that various (new) components were not working (later changed to they might work but it would take them so long to set them up it would be better for them to fit replacements they knew). Then they bodged my wiring - twisted together wires, the wires to the temperature sensor cut, left uncovered and the sensor removed (and disabled within the software so it would switch to gas before the engine had warmed up). Also down on power as they had fitted a too restrictive mixer rather than the one supplied in the kit.
But (done well) LPG systems can work very well. Despite a loss in power ours ran very smoothly on it, and the replacement has been running on it for the last 7 years and 70k miles. I've just changed the rocker cover gaskets and it looked like a 20k mile engine inside (Rover V8s tend to get sludged up very easily).

Moan over now...

[Stinkwheel(Matt)]

Ignore what ive said about my LPG CX above, ive been looking into the system workings, im not happy with it, see post in the discussion area for more details (if you actually give a flying rats toss that is)

[mat_the_cat]

Will do, regarding the economy we get between 14 and 18mpg on gas which is similar to what people report from a V8 on petrol, and at 63p a litre is more economical to run than a diesel Disco, cheaper to buy, makes a better noise and faster. I call that a win win! I'm sure you'd achieve more than 22mpg from a BX, but bearing in mind you need a bit of petrol to start on if you work on 22mpg any more than that is a bonus.
I take it the BLOS carb is some sort of variable venturi device? That's what came with my previous kit which the 'installers' couldn't get to work, replaced with a plain mixer ring.

[Stinkwheel(Matt)]

Yes the BLOS thing is a variable venturi, along the lines of an SU or motorcycle CV carb, with the intake vacuum opening a sliding valve, the nice thing about these is thay have finer and easier adjusment and dont restrict the inlet when on petrol like some normal mixers.

[Philhod]

I'm sorry I just don't see the point of going to all that trouble for so little gain.

Diesel is FTW. Jeff davies, a mate of mine, has a diesel disco. He's had it chipped and a uprated turbo fitted as his original was on the way out.

He now proclaims 37 mpg and a 0-60 of around 13 seconds. If that's true it's a good result for an outlay of under 300 quid. His module is switchable to change the characteristics too

[mat_the_cat]

Fair enough Phil, but I prefer the other way, for the Discovery at least. 37 mpg is some improvement, given that typical mpg for a 300Tdi diesel (round here at least) is around 25 to 28mpg, plus they tend to be a lot more to buy - nobody wants the petrols, even LPG ones due to the negative publicity (sometimes deserved) that the fuel has got.
For what it's worth I've timed ours at 11 seconds to 60, not that it encourages you to drive like that - plus the V8 noise!

My point is I think LPG as a fuel is a good concept, let down (sometimes) in installation and the fact that it's usually put in as a fairly universal add on to engines designed to run on petrol. If you altered the ignition advance curve to take advantage of the different burn characteristics of LPG then things would be better. Or if you had a switchable supercharger to up the compression ratio when on LPG - that would get the most out of it!

[Philhod]

I see what you mean about the supercharger, it would cool the burn a bit and introduce more air, thus possibly using less fuel.