BXProject

[mnde]

Hi chaps.

Couple of questions:

1) Is it absolutely necessary to remove the alt belt before you can change the hydraulic pump belt, as the Haynes BOL says, or is it just for easier access? (BX16)

2) What's the expected lifetime of a pump drivebelt? Current one was fitted in 2006, roughly 15-20K miles ago and apart from having to tighten it a couple of times early on, it's been fine... but has started to chirrup sometimes in the cold, and I'm intermittently getting twitchy/pulsing steering. It's fine once the car's warm. It may be fine with a tweak more tightness, but I've bought a new belt in case. Effing Eurocarparts are liars - the website said "Contitech", oh goody says I, but the belt that's turned up is a Goodyear one! I'm sure it's fine, but...

Cheers,

Mark.

[Philhod]

Never done a smelly petrol so can't comment, the diseasel runs off the camshaft, but as far as the belt is concerned Goodyear is hardly a shit make is it. Contitech (continental) are made up here in Wigan.

[docchevron132]

it's been over 10 years since I worked on a 16, but from memory, yes, the alt. belt has to come off to get the HP belt off..

As for life expectancy, well, there's a thing!
The valver ate 2 belts in 10K miles, and yet I've had one on the diesel for 250K miles before, and it was still fine when I binned the engine off for the tubo lump, at which point it had a new belt, and that stayed on it for 4 years and 50K miles.
BEst with belts to keep an eye on them and change them when they start looking gash really.

[Bx Bandit]

Ya see Charlie, Diesel FTW! Don't ask Charlie about pump belts SSSssshhhh

[Philhod]

Hiya Bandit me old tater. Hows you doing?

Charlie been getting his belts and braces in a twist then

[mnde]

Well, I visually checked the belt and it looked fine to me, so decided to nip it a bit tighter instead of replacing it as there was a bit of give in it.

Still does an intermittent chirrup when cold. This morning I got a momentary sensation of feeling the pump pistons through the steering and still got the odd feeling of intermittent very light steering at straight ahead.

Then at work this morning an ominous groan when I turned left into my parking space. For a while it's done a whistle noise on full left lock too.

The accumulator's only a couple of years old and it must be still good. Yesterday evening when I returned to the car after work there was still a bit of pressure left in the rear suspension. What with the leaks I've had (rear HC - now changed, FDV) the LHM has been topped up every so often, so it's not full of old fluid. The last change was in 2006 I think, which was probably the last time the filters were cleaned. But I didn't think the BX got it's fluid dirty all that quickly compared with the GS that suffers from cross-contamination with the engine oil.

Thoughts?

Mark.

[docchevron132]

Pump groaning on lock?
Belts fucked.
I mean, the noise will change on lock since the pumps working as hard as it possibly can, but if the belt slips then either it's too slack, or fucked.

It's probably worn and moved down the V's maybe?

As for LHM staying clean in BX's, dont believe it!
I ran hydrocarnage (delberate SP) in the valver, then flushed it and changed to LHM, at the same time cleaning the filters out, 2 years later the filters weren't clogged, but had lots of shite in them and the fluid was WELL past it's best having lost the grennness and viscosity.
A further bout of hydrocarnage, clean filters and fresh LHM made a world of difference, and the valver doesn't accrue vast mileages either.
That said the tick times dropped to about 5 seconds, so I really must change the accy sphere and sort the fucking PR out..

[mickey taker]

http://www.waudbys.co.uk/products/truma_carver.html

might be worth a try

[mnde]

Pump groaning on lock?
Belts fucked.
I mean, the noise will change on lock since the pumps working as hard as it possibly can, but if the belt slips then either it's too slack, or fucked.

It's probably worn and moved down the V's maybe?

As for LHM staying clean in BX's, dont believe it!
I ran hydrocarnage (delberate SP) in the valver, then flushed it and changed to LHM, at the same time cleaning the filters out, 2 years later the filters weren't clogged, but had lots of shite in them and the fluid was WELL past it's best having lost the grennness and viscosity.
A further bout of hydrocarnage, clean filters and fresh LHM made a world of difference, and the valver doesn't accrue vast mileages either.
That said the tick times dropped to about 5 seconds, so I really must change the accy sphere and sort the fucking PR out..

I've realised the whistle noise on full left lock is the tyre rubbing on something cos it only happens when the car's in motion.

Today again: chirrups when cold, juddery steering. No chirrups when hot, steering "better". No groan while turning into my parking space at work... I don't know what that was.

I'm beginning to think I've got a pump on the way out from what I've read about a weak pump being shown up by cold weather (thicker LHM) and not being able to keep up with demand from the ram, but being better when hot. I've always thought it's been a bit noisy, but I've never heard a quiet one to compare it with!

I've got a spare BX16 pump I was given by Ken some years ago that I might as well try at the same time as changing the belt. Any tips on recommissioning a pump that's lain dormant for some time (wrapped up in a plastic bag)? Should I fill it with LHM and leave it overnight... give a few turns of the pulley to run some LHM through the pistons?

Yeah I ought to get some Hydraurincage and dump the LHM while cleaning the filters and tank. Just an arse of a job in this fuxxing weather... Scared of bleeding the brakes myself incase I shear off a bleed screw so I'd probably take it to Darrin Brownhill who did the bleeding on my GSA after I'd changed the LHM.

My car is similar to Graeme's old BX "Cyril" in that the pump spends an awful amount of time on load at idle and the pressure reg doesn't reach cut out (continuous hiss) unless I dab the accelerator. It doesn't do it all the time, but a lot of the time. And the tick time isn't great. Especially if I raise the car into high - as it's going up the PR is merrily ticking away. So either I've got internal leakage, or the valve ball bearing needs reseating yada yada etc. or the accumulator is duff after all. I'll do the sitting in the boot test after switching off if I can remember. But yeah, all this means the pump and belt have been under a lot of stress.


Mark.

[Bx Bandit]

Don't give up!

I think filling the (spare) pump with oil before fitting it is no bad idea and givving it a few turns as well. If it makes any difference, I occasionally get the throbbing through the steering on very cold mornings, and I don't have a squeaky belt. So it could be one of them things or possibly a tired pinion valve.

Charlie actually has quite similar symptoms - in that he seems to of gone through a belt (very) quickly - and it's not clear why. Also, he suffers the relief valve not lifting (if the revs aren't quite high enough).

Take your time and persevere mate, these old cars are a stayers course me thinks....'hardcore'

[docchevron132]

TBH, slightly lumpy steering witha cold car in weather such as we've just had isn't uncommon, even with a new pump. Both my cars had new pumps in the recent past, and even the valver gets lumpy when it's been left over night in -11°C temps.

But, yes, pour some LHM in the pump, give it a few turns then leave it overnight filled with LHM before fitting would be best really.

[mnde]

I went out yesterday to change the pump, but fell at the first hurdle.

How the bloody hell do you get at the alternator pivot bolt on a BX16?? It's a size 19 or something and has got a "star" T-type thingy, and I tried and tried but couldn't get any spanner or socket or screwdriver on it because of restricted clearance. I've lost my brown Haynes, which may or may not have given more clues, and only had the inferior blue one for reference.

Do I really need to invest in a set of cranked spanners/screwdrivers?? - that I may or may not be able to get enough purchase on...

It's just going to have to go to a garage because I can't keep spending hours out every weekend getting nowhere... On the positive side, I've cleaned up the spare pump, filled it with LHM and given it a few turns until fluid started dribbling from the outlet port - it seems nice and free.

Well, I got the sparkplugs changed which was a job I'd been meaning to do...

Mark.

[smiffy]

A more productive use of your weekend would be to drive to stroud....

[Philhod]

Learning from the book is ok but it's much more productive to do any job for the first time by assisting someone who knows how

[mat_the_cat]

Hmmm, I wonder if in the long run it's better (if you have the time) to muddle through and work things out for yourself? As what another person 'teaches' you may not suit your method of working. Dunno, there are things I've picked up when left in the shit on my own that have suddenly come to me that I might not have gained from helping someone else. Equally there have been (many!) tips I've picked up from others that I wouldn't have though of in a million years!

[Philhod]

Well I learned cars on my own, usually from the book but I learned much more from my cousin who is a qualified mechanic (bus and waggon)
I also had the advantage of serving a mech engineering apprenticeship too, at the time.

You always learn more from watching an experienced person. He's made all the mistakes. You are picking up wisdom

That's what sorts the job after everythings gone to shit

[docchevron132]

Yes, you'll need a 21MM cranked spanner. Tis the only way unless you unto the OS engine mount and jack the engine up enough whilst pulling it all forward to get a socket on it. Which in itself is a ball ache because the belt runs right across the bolt head..

I have a 19GTi outside right now with the same set up, the 21MM was so loose the alternator was running at an angle and eating belts.
Unhappily my 21MM cranked spanner is at the farm. Still, the car now has MoT, so I'm not worrying about it til the next time I venture to the farm, at which point I'll no doubt forget to bring the fucking spanner home!

[Philhod]

I'll no doubt forget to bring the fucking spanner home!

Not if he posts a reminder every night!!

[docchevron132]

remembered!

ELF now back at Rob's, with shiney new ticket.

[Philhod]

result!