BXProject

[Bx Bandit]

Right, I'm asking on behalf of charlie cos he's too damn lazy and busy (apparently) to do it himself so I'm being his bitch and asking for him!!!

Cambelt change on XM 2.1 TD Auto. How do you get the AUX belt pulley bolt undone...cos the engine is spinning round no matter what gear it's in (it's as if it's in neutral no matter what is selected...)

Also, regarding aux belt tensioners, having done 97K should they be replaced or not. Obviously, cambelt tensioner/roller will be done

Apart from water pump and thermostat, is there any other recommended maintanence to be carried out whilst working at this end of the engine.

thank you
xxxxxx
charlie
p.s. if anyone wants free beer and a party, come to charlies house...prostitutes not supplied so bring your own!!!

[Vanny]

i'd assume that a) your following the haynes instructions b) you havent realised the haynes instructions are for the MANUAL gearbox

you can stick it any any gear you like, i very much doubt the box will let you put any power through it to undo the bolt. In my mind the logic is sto stick it in park, but i suspect you can't do that properly without the engine running. However DONT FUCK WITH IT untill someone who knows what they are talking about can advise, i know fuck all about auto's and wouldn't want you to kill it!

[smiffy]

That sounds like good advice, is there a danger of breaking the parking brake "pawl" in the autobox?
If ity were me, I'd try to lock the flywheel instead.

john s

[Philhod]

If it`s an XUD it will have a hole in the flywheel to time the btm 1/2.
Unless there is a different timing system on the auto, the torque converter should have said hole.
There is a hole in the engine casing RH side above the starter motor, if you poke a 6-8mm rod through it, and turn the engine by hand it should lock up when you find one that lines up with it.

Job done
ps It will snap the pall if you force it with it in park

[Way2go]

In my mind the logic is sto stick it in park

Can't see that would work as Park locks the transmission t'other side of the torque converter so engine would still spin. After all you can start the engine in Park and can put it in park with the engine running(when stationary!!!).

Perhaps a wooden wedge between the pulley and belt would give you sufficient resistance to undo but if its rotating with the pulley are yoiu sure that's the right bolt? Is that pulley not fixed to a quadrant like the BX for tensioning purposes? If so you have two other bolts to loosen and then the belt will slip off.

[David]

It all depends on whether the Auto still has the hole in the flywheel (driveplate) to accept the 8mm pin through the block flange. I would suspect that it does, as there's no other way to lock the crankshaft at TDC.

So, what you do is remove the starter (3 bolts) and hang it out of the way. Now rotate the engine to TDC, and insert an 8mm pin* through the hole in the block flange. Wiggle the engine back and forth across TDC until the pin falls into the flywheel/driveplate and locks it solid.

Now you can put a big long bar on the bottom pulley bolt and heave on it.

Even on manual gearboxes you have to do this if the bolt is tight, as with the car in gear there's simply too much "give" in the system to be able to get any kind of leverage on the pulley bolt. With the pin in, the crankshaft is properly solid, and hence you can really lean on it. Plus there's then no worry about damaging the gearbox with 400lbf-ft of torque.

Alternatively you buy a big compressor and a massive 3/4" drive rattle gun and spin it off in seconds.


* the best thing I have found to use as a pin is a long (like 100mm or so) socket head (IE you use an allen key on it) M8 bolt, with the threads and head cut off, and the end rounded into a bullnose. This gives you about 80mm of plain shanked 8mm pin, made of super-hard 12.9 grade alloy steel. It would take something like 4 tonnes of shear force to break that.

[Vanny]

So, what you do is remove the starter (3 bolts)

you heretic! What you want is the correctly bend bar that slots down the back of the starter motor so perfectly that you dont have to line it up or any of that bollox it just slips straight in (ooh er) i have two of said bars, i really should start making them up and setting the buggers, amazingly useful!


@W2G, i did state i had no idea about Auto's, driven only a small number in this country (all citroens, and mostly owned by citroen), but yes i do see what your saying, i dont really know jack shit about the auto cog box, its all voodoo to me

[smiffy]

Vanny, have you ever heard the expression "throwing a spanner in the works"?

Well, when you put an autobox in park, that is exactly what you are doing.

Think of it like this...the parking brake pawl, is like wedging a screwdriver in the teeth of a cog.

That's why you must NEVER apply park when still in motion, because you'll just fuck it up totally!
I don't even like leaving a car in park, what if some arse crashes into it while you're gone?
I prefer manual boxes for that reason.
john s

[Vanny]

hmm this is going to turn into 'auto boxes for vanny the idiot'

okay, so thats roughly how i invisaged the park working, but i guess i expected a big disc and a clamp, but a wedge will do. It sounds like it locks the transmission (as i would expect) but doesn't 'lock the clutch' as us manual thinking people might expect.

tell me more about the torque converter!

[Way2go]

@W2G, i did state i had no idea about Auto's, driven only a small number in this country (all citroens, and mostly owned by citroen), but yes i do see what your saying, i dont really know jack shit about the auto cog box, its all voodoo to me

When you're trying to visualise just from the words it's easy to get it wrong like I did thinking Bandit was talking about the alternator pulley rather than the crankshaft pulley.

In auto's the stiffness of the coupling increases with speed (where have we heard that before? ) so when the fluid is not swirling then one part being rotated slips easily past the other part.

[smiffy]

hmm this is going to turn into 'auto boxes for vanny the idiot'

okay, so thats roughly how i invisaged the park working, but i guess i expected a big disc and a clamp, but a wedge will do. It sounds like it locks the transmission (as i would expect) but doesn't 'lock the clutch' as us manual thinking people might expect.

tell me more about the torque converter!

Well, you know what the vanes of a turbo fan look like? immagine two sets of those, very close together, but NOT touching. you can spin each side independantly. put these two vanes in a casing, and fill with oil. now, spin one side, and the oil will drag the other one round....there you go, fluid drive!

Perhaps a bit simplistic, but you get the picture!

john s

[David]

So, what you do is remove the starter (3 bolts)

you heretic! What you want is the correctly bend bar that slots down the back of the starter motor so perfectly that you dont have to line it up or any of that bollox it just slips straight in (ooh er) i have two of said bars, i really should start making them up and setting the buggers, amazingly useful!

I know... I have one too, but given that you can't even see the hole without removing the starter, for a first-timer it has to be easier to remove the starter. Once you know where the hole is, then you can be clever with special tools!

There's been more than one occasion where I've not been able to find the hole (common problem I'm told!) and have had to remove the starter to find it. Depends on the type of starter fitted I think.

[Bx Bandit]

Gosh thanks guys! I've done my bx td several times and the xantia once but they are both manual!!....so I know the 'locating' hole behind the starter motor and yes they can be a bugger to get to, so removing the s/m will be done if needs be. I know it's not advisable to use an 8mm rod through the hole to lock the flywheel/crankshaft so it's a case of trying to ascertain how to stop the engine rotating whilst undoing the pulley bolt by another means....As was pointed out by one of you clever lot, then removing the flywheel cover and making a locking plate may be the best way...how about using an allen key to lock the flywheel?

Was just thinking of Daves.....er........rod and most of the stuff I have lying about is 8.8 but, I do have a cit M8 cap head bolt about which could be used but it's the standard nickle plated stuff ......not sure will be made of 12.9 or cheese?

[Philhod]

I have a titanium rod 10 mil turned down to about 7.5 and bent at 90degs but It`s still fartherless sometimes.

Next time I have one of these in bitz, I`m going to put a 7.5 dia long drill right through and see where it comes out on the clutch housing. if it causes too much paralax error, (being further away) I could always fit a bracket further out still to align it. There are no obstrctannoyers on that side Hmmmmm.....

[mickey taker]

I have a titanium rod 10 mil turned down to about 7.5 and bent at 90degs ..

dont you just love it when Phil talks dirty !!!!!!

[charlie]

errr wot u lot on about

cause bandits pulling yer pisser

yes i might ave a problem with a little bit of the silver surfing shed but

the free beer and party, with in house slutamatic vision and dirty fingernail scratch and sniff pants is at a small semi detached retreat

not far from the m4

outside cardiff, so it cant be me

near the back of the balck sheep bums bitter plant

aka

ftw

banditos

for it is he

and why arnt u in the fuckin rain workin

[Bx Bandit]

Why aren't you at work workin? you have a choice then charlie....bolt through tdc hole in flywheel or a locking 'thing' to fit the teeth on the flywheel....?

[charlie]

dont know what the fuck yer talkin about cause im goona do this

Hi Charlie.

You might still find the bolt a bit of a sod to get started. Another way is to get a good quality and proper fit socket; make sure it's fully home on the bolt head and then as close in as you can, bring your T bar handle (probably with some sort of extension) down to the ground, so it's wedged at the 'twenty five past' position, as you look square on to the pulley. Remove the cable from the injection pump solenoid (so it can't start) and then have a helper just flick the starter motor over on the key. The bolt will be loose. Ideally, if you can do it safely, maintain a square push on the back of the socket with a length of wood, or similar, during the process, to stop it jumping out.
Don't forget while you're at it, it's a good time to replace the crank pulley seal and the water pump.

Mike.

from the xm club

sounds good and dangerous

[charlie]

and as you well know i take my job as a bus driver very seriously

and if i cant see cause of the snot coming out of me orifices

well i cant put cardiffs finest bus travelling public at risk

so here i am

at home

in de warm

relaxxxing

wondering wot to do and who to upset next

[Bx Bandit]

dont know what the fuck yer talkin about cause im goona do this

Hi Charlie.

You might still find the bolt a bit of a sod to get started. Another way is to get a good quality and proper fit socket; make sure it's fully home on the bolt head and then as close in as you can, bring your T bar handle (probably with some sort of extension) down to the ground, so it's wedged at the 'twenty five past' position, as you look square on to the pulley. Remove the cable from the injection pump solenoid (so it can't start) and then have a helper just flick the starter motor over on the key. The bolt will be loose. Ideally, if you can do it safely, maintain a square push on the back of the socket with a length of wood, or similar, during the process, to stop it jumping out.
Don't forget while you're at it, it's a good time to replace the crank pulley seal and the water pump.

Mike.

from the xm club

sounds good and dangerous

Don't fancy that myself mate...not a bit